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Lady of the Land

Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 6984
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Winter World?


Most of us here are dealing with snow at the moment, in one way or the other. That made me think:

Can you imagine a winter world? A world with perpetual snow. What kind of people would live there? How would they survive?

That would certainly be a fantastic world. emoticon

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Hannah Steenbock
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Troll in Chains

Registered: 01-2007
Location: Just north of the clouds...
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Re: Winter World?


How about the Inuit/Eskimos of northern Alaska. Pretty darned close... emoticon

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“Freedom and democracy are dreams you never give up.”

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Shepherd

Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 2138
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Re: Winter World?


They certainly come to mind, yes, but in a fantasy setting perhaps some other things are possible. Maybe mages could make larger civilizations possible?
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The Reeve

Registered: 07-2005
Location: Texas
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Re: Winter World?


Castles of snow and ice bound by magical cold on the outside. Amulets of warmth would be highly prized in such a world I think. Instead of prisons criminals would find themselves exiled from the cities to fend for themselves.

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Shepherd

Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Winter World?


The mountain tops would be clear of ice as well, now that I think of it. If you freeze enough water, eventually there is none left for rain any more and as such the mountain tops become to desiccated to maintain ice. Which would thus allow relatively easy access to the materials they contain.
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The Reeve

Registered: 07-2005
Location: Texas
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Re: Winter World?


A true ice-world would have a antarctic biome with very little life... I am thinking maybe we should look at the tundra biome if we want to create a world where people can survive (even with magical powers)...

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Grand Master

Registered: 04-2004
Posts: 301
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Re: Winter World?


As soon as I read the thread's title I immediately thought of Narnia.

Then I thought of Ice Age emoticon
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Squire

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 693
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Re: Winter World?


The thing about Narnia is that although it has been winter forever, the beavers eat toast. Where do they grow the wheat for the bread? emoticon


That's not my original idea, by the way. It was from a dramatised C.S. Lewis biography, where some small children are visiting him and ask the question.

I wonder if that's what prompted Lewis to create a wider non-winter world outside Narnia, as seen in A Horse and his Boy? The film didn't make that obvious, but it would make sense.


Anyway, back to the point: frozen world, no bread. No crops of any kind, and therefore no grazing land animals either. You probably eat fish and lichen. (Like Eskimos).




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Lady of the Land

Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 6984
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Re: Winter World?


Yes, unless they find a way to grow things indoors. Probably not wheat, as that's very difficult to grow indoors, but maybe potatoes or some other kind of food.

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Hannah Steenbock
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Squire

Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 693
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Re: Winter World?


It depends on whether the world has always been frozen, or whether the climate changed at some point in human (or whatever equivalent) history.

Human crops are domesticated versions of wild plants. If the world has always been frozen, how did people find potatoes growing and think "yummy, let's grow some inside"? There just wouildn't be plants to find in the first place.

If there was a catastrophe or a slow onset of an ice age, they would have all their crops and be able work out ways to grow them inside when the ice came.

Actually, if the world had always been frozen then I don't think humans could have evolved, so we must be talking about the latter... in which case, we would see a civilization that had ingeniously adapted their "temperate" lifestyle to the new enviroment. It would be more like a post-apocalyptic civilization with snow than an Eskimo civilization.



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Lady of the Land

Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 6984
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Re: Winter World?


David, I agree. There must have been a temperate world to allow things to evolve, including a human civilization, or even a waterworld civilization.

Yet, if you allow magic, much more is possible. emoticon

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Hannah Steenbock
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Knight of Honor

Registered: 11-2005
Posts: 1883
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Re: Winter World?


ARGH!!! Stupid Firefox just ate my reply again! *snarl* Trying a second time...

I was thinking on what Meadows said. It brought to mind the fact that there have been periods in the Earth's history when the whole planet was covered in snow/ice. Despite the strong evidence, scientists used to be worried, because these "snowball Earth" periods were thought to freeze the oceans solid. The trouble with that (as Meadows noted) is that with no liquid water, where would life survive? Cells don't like being frozen, nor can micro-organisms (the most likely to adapt and survive) move and gain food without a fluid medium. So there was a lot of relief when some evidence (still under debate) came to light suggesting that the oceans, while covered in ice, were probably not completely frozen in all places. These fluid places may have left the "seeds" of life, for when the planet thawed out again (hooray for our hard-working atmosphere!).

So I'm with Meadows. If a planet developed its own life (in some form easily recognizable to us), liquid water (or some similar fluid) would be a prerequisite. As QS and Rick noted, a writer can get around a solid-water world AFTER the development of intelligent life, though.

Also, another use for a winter world would be in scifi. A sterile winter world could certainly exist which would have an acceptable atmosphere for humans (at least with some hand-waving comments about terraforming). Just as a group of magicians could survive on an ice ball, so could a group of hi-tech people. You could make a pretty decent survival story about one of them who got caught out without being prepared, I'd think.

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Shepherd

Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 2138
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Re: Winter World?


Just to be a bit silly, maybe they made the potatoes by mutating the lichen with MAGIC in to a potato plant? emoticon emoticon

And and, the humans are actually all mermaids adapted to ground life, also done with MAGIC of course. emoticon

Yup, that's the ticket, it's all MAGIC and former aquatic life and lichen of course, very unusually mutated lichen. emoticon
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tryingtowrite Profile
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Knight

Registered: 03-2007
Posts: 1356
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Re: Winter World?


Yeah all plants need a little time with the temperature above freezing, although apparently some can start growing under the snow. Arctic plants
David, caribou live on lichens and mosses and are a grazing land animal. However that's a moot point if it never thaws, because even lichens need a bit of summer.
If you did make your world so it had a few weeks of warmer weather you could create a 'super plant' like the chia plant was to the Peruvians. It would even be based on the truth, I found a study that said vitamin c levels were four to ten times greater in plants that grew in the north. Makes sense that the other vitamins would be higher as well.

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The Reeve

Registered: 07-2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 2474
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Re: Winter World?


Instead of a total ice world (which would be similar to the Antarctic continent) I propose a world where it is more like what we call winter conditions all year. Science calls this type of environment a Tundra Biome . This would be the conditions near the equator with arctic or antarctic like conditions at the poles. The advantage of this is that even in such harsh conditions there are seasons and near the equator temps could actually get into the 80's during the brief summer season (I am thinking Alaska because I have a neighbor who grew up in Center, Alaska).

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Shepherd

Registered: 03-2006
Posts: 2138
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Re: Winter World?


That sounds like a pretty interesting concept Pastor Rick, one certainly could manage quite a lot of things with that.

In such a setting if there were dwarves they might have it 'relatively' warm as well, dug in deep in their mountains, what being closer to the Earths heat and all when they dig deep. Or else one could always trying to play with lava or magma, cheap heat, cheap forges with superior heat! All this and many more advantages, what could possibly be wrong with such a great deal?
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Grand Master

Registered: 01-2005
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 492
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Re: Winter World?


quote:

David Meadows wrote:

It depends on whether the world has always been frozen, or whether the climate changed at some point in human (or whatever equivalent) history.



This is absolutely the first question that has to be asked. The results are going to be quite different.

quote:

David Meadows wrote:
Actually, if the world had always been frozen then I don't think humans could have evolved, so we must be talking about the latter...



I think you may be thinking a little too narrowmindedly for the "Fantastic Worlds" folder.
There is no reason why a Fantasy world could not have been created from whole cloth in a winter biome. The creatures could have been specially designed by a power or group of powers in some universal game to see which single biome planet could beat out all the other single biome planets emoticon

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